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2011-03-21T01:00:02Z

Mormonheretic: Undo revision 2629 by Bernnbul (talk) vandalism

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<div style="font-size:162%;border:none;margin: 0;padding:.1em;color:#000">Welcome to [[LDS_Sunday_School:About|LDSSundaySchool.org]],</div>
<div style="top:+0.2em;font-size: 95%">the free encyclopedia about Mormon Sunday School from the perspective of faithful members.</div>
<div id="articlecount" style="width:100%;text-align:center;font-size:85%;">featuring [[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]] articles</div>
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*[[Special:Categories|All Articles]]
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*[[:Category:RS/Priesthood Manuals|RS/Priesthood Manuals]]
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*[[:Category:Pearl of Great Price|Pearl of Great Price]]
*[[:Category: Gospel Essentials|Gospel Essentials]]
*[[:Category: Presidents of the Church|Presidents of the Church]]
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#003366;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #258;text-align:left;color:#fff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">About the Site</h2>
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|style="color:#000"|{{About the Site}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3bfb1;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Featured RS/PH Lesson</h2>
|-
|style="color:#000"|{{Featured RS/PH Lesson‎}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3bfb1;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Featured Seminary-Institute</h2>
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{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Featured Gospel Doctrine Lesson</h2>
|-
|style="color:#000"|{{Featured Gospel Doctrine Lesson}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Family Home Evening</h2>
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|style="color:#000"|{{Family Home Evening}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#ccc;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Special Topics</h2>
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__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

GP-Chapter 3

2010-01-18T04:42:10Z

Mormonheretic: New page: ''' Lesson 3 ''' ==Additional Teaching Materials== ==Navigation== *Next GP-Chapter 4 *Previous GP-Chapter 2 Category:Relief Society Category:Priesthood [[Category:LDS P...

''' Lesson 3 '''

==Additional Teaching Materials==

==Navigation==
*Next [[GP-Chapter 4]]
*Previous [[GP-Chapter 2]]

[[Category:Relief Society]]
[[Category:Priesthood]]
[[Category:LDS Principles]]

GP-Chapter 1

2010-01-18T04:41:23Z

Mormonheretic: New page: ''' Our Heavenly Father ''' ==Additional Teaching Materials== ==Navigation== *Next GP-Chapter 2 Category:Relief Society Category:Priesthood Category:LDS Principles

''' Our Heavenly Father '''

==Additional Teaching Materials==

==Navigation==
*Next [[GP-Chapter 2]]

[[Category:Relief Society]]
[[Category:Priesthood]]
[[Category:LDS Principles]]

GP-Chapter 2

2010-01-17T00:03:57Z

Mormonheretic: /* Scriptural References to the Pre-Mortal Life */ formatting

''' Our Heavenly Family '''

The title of Lesson #2 is “Our Heavenly Family”, but I think it is mis-named. Most of the lesson deals with the pre-Mortal life. As I thought about this, I think this is one of the biggest theological innovations in Mormon theology. I can remember teaching about the pre-mortal life as part of the plan of Salvation. I also remember that missionaries are free to use A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrand Richards. I loved this book as a missionary. Elder Richards served as mission president to the Southern States Mission. Since I served in the South, this book was a wonderful tool in the Bible Belt, and highlights many biblical scriptures in support of Mormon beliefs and doctrines.

==Children of Heavenly Father==
The lesson starts off with a basic missionary principle: We are children of Our Heavenly Father. I do remember teaching a pastor on my mission. When I stated this, he said, “Why do you say we’re children of our Heavenly Father?” I replied with the “Sunday School answer” (which is backed up by the quote in this lesson from Joseph F Smith), that God created us. His response was puzzling to me. “God created the animals too, but he’s not their Father, is he?” I was puzzled by his response then and now, and was not sure how to respond. I felt he was toying with me, but I never understood his point. Can anyone enlighten me and tell me what he was getting at?

===Is a creator the same this as a Father?===
When we say, “God created us,” we say it with the idea, “God created us…so we are the same “species,” as him. We are his “children.”" The pastor brings up animals by saying, “Well, God created animals…does that mean they are the same species?” His point is that just as it is preposterous to say God is a “Father” to animals and animals are his children, so it is preposterous to say God is a “Father” to humans and humans are his children.

==We are Trying to Be like Jesus==
The next paragraph in the lesson is something that we often say, and something that I think some members don’t fully appreciate. “Because we are the spirit children of God, we have inherited the potential to develop His divine qualities.” While most evangelicals generally agree that we’re all “trying to be like Jesus”, the idea of exaltation is repulsive to them. I suspect most teachers of the lesson will gloss over this sentence of the lesson, but I think it is profound. I do remember on my mission being accused that we don’t really talk about exaltation openly in missionary discussions or church lessons. While I agree that Mormons are somewhat guilty, this is a place where we can discuss a “meatier” portion of the gospel. So what do you think of this theological innovation of Mormonism? Are you comfortable with the idea that we can actually become “like God”, or is this a real heresy of the LDS church?

==Scriptural References to the Pre-Mortal Life==
There are those who claim that many ideas in the Doctrine & Covenants are not found in the Book of Mormon. However, the pre-Mortal life is alive and well in the Book of Mormon. The manual references Alma 13:1-3, as well as Abraham 3:22-23 from the Pearl of Great Price. Other Biblical scriptures from the lesson referencing the pre-Mortal life include Hebrews 12:9, Job 38:4-7, Jeremiah 1:5, 1 Corinthians 15:44, to go along with many sections from the D&C: 29, 76, 132. When we look at the story in John 9 where the disciples ask Jesus,

“Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
“3 Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus,
“but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.

This scripture seems to imply that the blind man could have sinned in a pre-earth life. The disciples seemed quite comfortable with this idea of a pre-Mortal life, or why would they have asked the question? Though I haven’t read the book yet, Terryl Givens has a history of the pre-Mortal life in his book, When Souls Had Wings: Pre-Mortal Existence in Western Thought. Why do you think other religions don’t believe in a pre-Mortal life? It seems pretty obvious to me that it is a biblical idea. Givens says that the pre-Mortal life idea was created to fix many theological conundrums.

There is an interesting distinction between foreordination and predestination. Calvinists believe

“Everyone is predestined…but God doesn’t even make it so that everyone goes to heaven.
Some people are predestined for hell and there isn’t anything they can do about their reprobation.”

Let’s contrast that with what the manual says (page 10):

“However, everyone on earth is free to accept or reject any opportunity to serve.”

So, while Mormon theology states that we’re all foreordained to our offices, we can still screw up. Calvinism seems to imply that God plays favorites (at least according to Andrew.) So, which theology do you prefer: predestination or foreordination? (Side note: Calvinism apparently refers to churches which belong to World Communion of Reformed Churches).

==Council in Heaven==
Finally, there is the council in Heaven, with lots of quotes from prophets and LDS scriptures in the manual. I won’t go into that here, but Isaiah 14:12-18 describes the fall from heaven of one called “Lucifer” in the King James Version and the “morning star, son of the dawn” in the NIV. Ezekiel 28 is another passage thought to refer to Lucifer/Satan. Apparently, Lucifer/Satan had a position of guardian angel in heaven “among the fiery stones,” thought to be the shining precious jewels that are seen in other descriptions of heaven (Exodus 24:10; Revelation 21:18-21).

Why is it that evangelicals make such a big deal that Mormons believe Jesus and Satan were brothers? Don’t they? Where did Satan come from?

==Additional Teaching Materials==

==Navigation==
*Next [[GP-Chapter 1]]
*Previous [[GP-Chapter 3]]

[[Category:Relief Society]]
[[Category:Priesthood]]
[[Category:LDS Principles]]

GP-Chapter 2

2010-01-17T00:03:24Z

Mormonheretic: /* Scriptural References to the Pre-Mortal Life */ formatting

''' Our Heavenly Family '''

The title of Lesson #2 is “Our Heavenly Family”, but I think it is mis-named. Most of the lesson deals with the pre-Mortal life. As I thought about this, I think this is one of the biggest theological innovations in Mormon theology. I can remember teaching about the pre-mortal life as part of the plan of Salvation. I also remember that missionaries are free to use A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrand Richards. I loved this book as a missionary. Elder Richards served as mission president to the Southern States Mission. Since I served in the South, this book was a wonderful tool in the Bible Belt, and highlights many biblical scriptures in support of Mormon beliefs and doctrines.

==Children of Heavenly Father==
The lesson starts off with a basic missionary principle: We are children of Our Heavenly Father. I do remember teaching a pastor on my mission. When I stated this, he said, “Why do you say we’re children of our Heavenly Father?” I replied with the “Sunday School answer” (which is backed up by the quote in this lesson from Joseph F Smith), that God created us. His response was puzzling to me. “God created the animals too, but he’s not their Father, is he?” I was puzzled by his response then and now, and was not sure how to respond. I felt he was toying with me, but I never understood his point. Can anyone enlighten me and tell me what he was getting at?

===Is a creator the same this as a Father?===
When we say, “God created us,” we say it with the idea, “God created us…so we are the same “species,” as him. We are his “children.”" The pastor brings up animals by saying, “Well, God created animals…does that mean they are the same species?” His point is that just as it is preposterous to say God is a “Father” to animals and animals are his children, so it is preposterous to say God is a “Father” to humans and humans are his children.

==We are Trying to Be like Jesus==
The next paragraph in the lesson is something that we often say, and something that I think some members don’t fully appreciate. “Because we are the spirit children of God, we have inherited the potential to develop His divine qualities.” While most evangelicals generally agree that we’re all “trying to be like Jesus”, the idea of exaltation is repulsive to them. I suspect most teachers of the lesson will gloss over this sentence of the lesson, but I think it is profound. I do remember on my mission being accused that we don’t really talk about exaltation openly in missionary discussions or church lessons. While I agree that Mormons are somewhat guilty, this is a place where we can discuss a “meatier” portion of the gospel. So what do you think of this theological innovation of Mormonism? Are you comfortable with the idea that we can actually become “like God”, or is this a real heresy of the LDS church?

==Scriptural References to the Pre-Mortal Life==
There are those who claim that many ideas in the Doctrine & Covenants are not found in the Book of Mormon. However, the pre-Mortal life is alive and well in the Book of Mormon. The manual references Alma 13:1-3, as well as Abraham 3:22-23 from the Pearl of Great Price. Other Biblical scriptures from the lesson referencing the pre-Mortal life include Hebrews 12:9, Job 38:4-7, Jeremiah 1:5, 1 Corinthians 15:44, to go along with many sections from the D&C: 29, 76, 132. When we look at the story in John 9 where the disciples ask Jesus,

“Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
“3 Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus,
“but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.

This scripture seems to imply that the blind man could have sinned in a pre-earth life. The disciples seemed quite comfortable with this idea of a pre-Mortal life, or why would they have asked the question? Though I haven’t read the book yet, Terryl Givens has a history of the pre-Mortal life in his book, When Souls Had Wings: Pre-Mortal Existence in Western Thought. Why do you think other religions don’t believe in a pre-Mortal life? It seems pretty obvious to me that it is a biblical idea. Givens says that the pre-Mortal life idea was created to fix many theological conundrums.

There is an interesting distinction between foreordination and predestination. Calvinists believe

“Everyone is predestined…but God doesn’t even make it so that everyone goes to heaven. Some people are predestined for hell and there isn’t anything they can do about their reprobation.”

Let’s contrast that with what the manual says (page 10):

“However, everyone on earth is free to accept or reject any opportunity to serve.”

So, while Mormon theology states that we’re all foreordained to our offices, we can still screw up. Calvinism seems to imply that God plays favorites (at least according to Andrew.) So, which theology do you prefer: predestination or foreordination? (Side note: Calvinism apparently refers to churches which belong to World Communion of Reformed Churches).

==Council in Heaven==
Finally, there is the council in Heaven, with lots of quotes from prophets and LDS scriptures in the manual. I won’t go into that here, but Isaiah 14:12-18 describes the fall from heaven of one called “Lucifer” in the King James Version and the “morning star, son of the dawn” in the NIV. Ezekiel 28 is another passage thought to refer to Lucifer/Satan. Apparently, Lucifer/Satan had a position of guardian angel in heaven “among the fiery stones,” thought to be the shining precious jewels that are seen in other descriptions of heaven (Exodus 24:10; Revelation 21:18-21).

Why is it that evangelicals make such a big deal that Mormons believe Jesus and Satan were brothers? Don’t they? Where did Satan come from?

==Additional Teaching Materials==

==Navigation==
*Next [[GP-Chapter 1]]
*Previous [[GP-Chapter 3]]

[[Category:Relief Society]]
[[Category:Priesthood]]
[[Category:LDS Principles]]

OT-Lesson 12

2010-01-16T23:38:36Z

Mormonheretic:

'''“Fruitful in the Land of My Affliction” (Genesis 40–45)'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Joseph: Master of Dreams'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Next [[Lesson 13]]
*Previous [[Lesson 11]]

[[Category:Old Testament]]
[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 13

2010-01-16T23:37:57Z

Mormonheretic: New page: '''Bondage, Passover, and Exodus (Exodus 1–3; 5–6; 11–14)''' {{Old Testament top}} {{Old Testament stubs}} ==Helpful Books== *Old Testament Institute Manual *The Old Testament Made ...

'''Bondage, Passover, and Exodus (Exodus 1–3; 5–6; 11–14)'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Helpful Books==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.

==Helpful Videos==
*<u>'''Moses at Mount Sinai'''</u>. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993.
*<u>'''The Exodus Revealed'''</u>. Questar.
*<u>'''The Ten Commandments'''</u>. by Cecil B. Demille. 1956. ISBN 1-4157-1863-6
*<u>'''Mysteries of the Bible:The Ten Commandments.'''</u> A&E Television. 1997. ISBN 0-7670-1854-0

==Navigation==
*Next [[OT-Lesson 14]]
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 12]]

[[Category:Old Testament]]
[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 12

2010-01-16T23:37:29Z

Mormonheretic:

'''Bondage, Passover, and Exodus (Exodus 1–3; 5–6; 11–14)'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Helpful Books==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.

==Helpful Videos==
*<u>'''Moses at Mount Sinai'''</u>. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993.
*<u>'''The Exodus Releaved'''</u>. Questar.
*<u>'''The Ten Commandments'''</u>. by Cecil B. Demille. 1956. ISBN 1-4157-1863-6
*<u>'''Mysteries of the Bible:The Ten Commandments.'''</u> A&E Television. 1997. ISBN 0-7670-1854-0

==Navigation==
*Next [[OT-Lesson 13]]
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 11]]

[[Category:Old Testament]]
[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 12

2010-01-16T23:36:01Z

'''Bondage, Passover, and Exodus (Exodus 1–3; 5–6; 11–14)'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Helpful Books==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.

==Helpful Videos==
*<u>'''Moses at Mount Sinai'''</u>. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993.
*<u>'''The Exodus Releaved'''</u>. Questar.
*<u>'''The Ten Commandments'''</u>. by Cecil B. Demille. 1956. ISBN 1-4157-1863-6
*<u>'''Mysteries of the Bible:The Ten Commandments.'''</u> A&E Television. 1997. ISBN 0-7670-1854-0

==Navigation==
*Next [[OT-Lesson 14]]
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 12]]

[[Category:Old Testament]]
[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 11

2010-01-16T23:35:08Z

Mormonheretic: New page: '''“How Can I Do This Great Wickedness?” (Genesis 34; 37–39)''' {{Old Testament top}} {{Old Testament stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== *Old Testament Institute Manual *The ...

'''“How Can I Do This Great Wickedness?” (Genesis 34; 37–39)'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Joseph: Master of Dreams.''' ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Next [[OT-Lesson 12]]
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 10]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 10

2010-01-16T23:34:30Z

Mormonheretic: New page: '''Birthright Blessings; Marriage in the Covenant (Genesis 24–29)''' {{Old Testament top}} {{Old Testament stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== *Old Testament Institute Manual *Th...

'''Birthright Blessings; Marriage in the Covenant (Genesis 24–29)'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Next [[OT-Lesson 11]]
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 9]]

[[Category:Pearl of Great Price]]
[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 9

2010-01-16T23:33:43Z

Mormonheretic: New page: '''“God Will Provide Himself a Lamb” (Abraham 1; Genesis 15–17; Genesis 21–22)''' {{Old Testament top}} {{Old Testament stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== *Old Testament In...

'''“God Will Provide Himself a Lamb” (Abraham 1; Genesis 15–17; Genesis 21–22)'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Next [[OT-Lesson 10]]
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 8]]

[[Category:Pearl of Great Price]]
[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 8

2010-01-16T23:33:18Z

Mormonheretic:

'''Living Righteously in a Wicked World (Genesis 13–14; Genesis 18–19) '''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Next [[OT-Lesson 9]]
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 7]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 8

2010-01-16T23:32:39Z

Mormonheretic: New page: '''Living Righteously in a Wicked World (Genesis 13–14; Genesis 18–19) ''' {{Old Testament top}} {{Old Testament stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== *Old Testament Institute Ma...

'''Living Righteously in a Wicked World (Genesis 13–14; Genesis 18–19) '''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Next [[Lesson 9]]
*Previous [[Lesson 7]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 7

2010-01-16T23:32:04Z

Mormonheretic:

'''The Abrahamic Covenant'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 6]]
*Next [[OT-Lesson 8]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 7

2010-01-16T23:31:50Z

Mormonheretic: New page: '''The Abrahamic Covenant''' {{Old Testament top}} {{Old Testament stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== *Old Testament Institute Manual *The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David ...

'''The Abrahamic Covenant'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 5]]
*Next [[OT-Lesson 7]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 6

2010-01-16T23:31:15Z

Mormonheretic: New page: '''“Noah … Prepared an Ark to the Saving of His House”''' {{Old Testament top}} {{Old Testament stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== *Old Testament Institute Manual *The Old Te...

'''“Noah … Prepared an Ark to the Saving of His House”'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 5]]
*Next [[OT-Lesson 7]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 5

2010-01-16T23:30:35Z

Mormonheretic: New page: '''“If Thou Doest Well, Thou Shalt Be Accepted” ''' {{Old Testament top}} {{Old Testament stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== *Old Testament Institute Manual *The Old Testament ...

'''“If Thou Doest Well, Thou Shalt Be Accepted” '''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 4]]
*Next [[OT-Lesson 6]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 4

2010-01-16T23:29:58Z

Mormonheretic: New page: '''“Because of My Transgression My Eyes Are Opened” ''' {{Old Testament top}} {{Old Testament stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== *Old Testament Institute Manual *The Old Testam...

'''“Because of My Transgression My Eyes Are Opened” '''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 3]]
*Next [[OT-Lesson 5]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 3

2010-01-16T23:28:58Z

Mormonheretic: navigation

'''The Creation'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 2]]
*Next [[OT-Lesson 4]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 2

2010-01-16T23:28:17Z

Mormonheretic: navigation

'''“Thou Wast Chosen Before Thou Wast Born”'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 1]]
*Next [[OT-Lesson 3]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 1

2010-01-16T23:27:44Z

Mormonheretic: New page: '''“This Is My Work and My Glory”''' {{Old Testament top}} {{Old Testament stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== *Old Testament Institute Manual *The Old Testament Made Easier Par...

'''“This Is My Work and My Glory”'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Next [[OT-Lesson 2]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 2

2010-01-16T23:26:47Z

Mormonheretic: fix navigation

'''“Thou Wast Chosen Before Thou Wast Born”'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Next [[OT-Lesson 1]]
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 3]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 2

2010-01-16T23:26:25Z

Mormonheretic: New page: '''“Thou Wast Chosen Before Thou Wast Born”''' {{Old Testament top}} {{Old Testament stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== *Old Testament Institute Manual *The Old Testament Made ...

'''“Thou Wast Chosen Before Thou Wast Born”'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Next [[OT-Lesson 2]]
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 4]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

OT-Lesson 3

2010-01-16T23:25:51Z

Mormonheretic: New page: '''The Creation''' {{Old Testament top}} {{Old Testament stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== *Old Testament Institute Manual *The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, ...

'''The Creation'''
{{Old Testament top}}
{{Old Testament stubs}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
*Old Testament Institute Manual
*The Old Testament Made Easier Part 1. David J Ridges, 2006.
*'''Abraham: One Man, One God'''. ''The Bible's Greatest Heroes''. Mysteries of the Bible by A&E. 1993. ISBN 0-7670-3890-8

==Navigation==
*Next [[OT-Lesson 2]]
*Previous [[OT-Lesson 4]]

[[Category:Gospel Doctrine Old Testament]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

File:Tchg-pix.nfo o 327f.jpg

2010-01-16T23:22:58Z

Mormonheretic: Old Testament manual

Old Testament manual

Template:Featured Gospel Doctrine Lesson

2010-01-16T23:22:21Z

Mormonheretic: update to Old Testament lessons

The [http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=0e63c106dac20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=d7561b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD Old Testament Manual] can be found here.

We need a lot of help in adding content to this site.

We need help on all other lessons, but expect with current lesson coming up, that we need help with the following:
[[Image:tchg-pix.nfo o 327f.jpg|thumb|right|100px|OT Manual]]

New Testament Lessons
*[[OT-Lesson 1]] “This Is My Work and My Glory”
*[[OT-Lesson 2]] “Thou Wast Chosen Before Thou Wast Born”
*[[OT-Lesson 3]] The Creation
*[[OT-Lesson 4]] “Because of My Transgression My Eyes Are Opened”

The official manual can be found [http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=0e63c106dac20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=d7561b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD here.]

[[Category:Old Testament]]
[[Category:Templates]]

File:06195cov.jpg

2010-01-16T23:17:00Z

Mormonheretic: photo of manual cover

photo of manual cover

Template:Featured RS/PH Lesson

2010-01-16T23:16:31Z

Mormonheretic: change photo of manual

The [http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=02df1f7962d43210VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=0ef9f4b13819d110VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD Gospel Principles] can be found here.

We need a lot of help in adding content to this site.

We need help on all other lessons, but expect with current lesson coming up, that we need help with the following:
[[Image:06195cov.jpg|thumb|right|100px|2009-10 Gospel Principles Manual]]

Priesthood/RS Lessons
*[[GP-Chapter 1]] Our Father in Heaven
*[[GP-Chapter 2]] Our Heavenly Family
*[[GP-Chapter 3]] Jesus Christ, Our Chosen Leader and Savior

[[Category:Relief Society]]
[[Category:Priesthood]]
[[Category:Templates]]

GP-Chapter 2

2010-01-16T23:13:58Z

Mormonheretic: create lesson

''' Our Heavenly Family '''

The title of Lesson #2 is “Our Heavenly Family”, but I think it is mis-named. Most of the lesson deals with the pre-Mortal life. As I thought about this, I think this is one of the biggest theological innovations in Mormon theology. I can remember teaching about the pre-mortal life as part of the plan of Salvation. I also remember that missionaries are free to use A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrand Richards. I loved this book as a missionary. Elder Richards served as mission president to the Southern States Mission. Since I served in the South, this book was a wonderful tool in the Bible Belt, and highlights many biblical scriptures in support of Mormon beliefs and doctrines.

==Children of Heavenly Father==
The lesson starts off with a basic missionary principle: We are children of Our Heavenly Father. I do remember teaching a pastor on my mission. When I stated this, he said, “Why do you say we’re children of our Heavenly Father?” I replied with the “Sunday School answer” (which is backed up by the quote in this lesson from Joseph F Smith), that God created us. His response was puzzling to me. “God created the animals too, but he’s not their Father, is he?” I was puzzled by his response then and now, and was not sure how to respond. I felt he was toying with me, but I never understood his point. Can anyone enlighten me and tell me what he was getting at?

===Is a creator the same this as a Father?===
When we say, “God created us,” we say it with the idea, “God created us…so we are the same “species,” as him. We are his “children.”" The pastor brings up animals by saying, “Well, God created animals…does that mean they are the same species?” His point is that just as it is preposterous to say God is a “Father” to animals and animals are his children, so it is preposterous to say God is a “Father” to humans and humans are his children.

==We are Trying to Be like Jesus==
The next paragraph in the lesson is something that we often say, and something that I think some members don’t fully appreciate. “Because we are the spirit children of God, we have inherited the potential to develop His divine qualities.” While most evangelicals generally agree that we’re all “trying to be like Jesus”, the idea of exaltation is repulsive to them. I suspect most teachers of the lesson will gloss over this sentence of the lesson, but I think it is profound. I do remember on my mission being accused that we don’t really talk about exaltation openly in missionary discussions or church lessons. While I agree that Mormons are somewhat guilty, this is a place where we can discuss a “meatier” portion of the gospel. So what do you think of this theological innovation of Mormonism? Are you comfortable with the idea that we can actually become “like God”, or is this a real heresy of the LDS church?

==Scriptural References to the Pre-Mortal Life==
There are those who claim that many ideas in the Doctrine & Covenants are not found in the Book of Mormon. However, the pre-Mortal life is alive and well in the Book of Mormon. The manual references Alma 13:1-3, as well as Abraham 3:22-23 from the Pearl of Great Price. Other Biblical scriptures from the lesson referencing the pre-Mortal life include Hebrews 12:9, Job 38:4-7, Jeremiah 1:5, 1 Corinthians 15:44, to go along with many sections from the D&C: 29, 76, 132. When we look at the story in John 9 where the disciples ask Jesus,

“Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.

This scripture seems to imply that the blind man could have sinned in a pre-earth life. The disciples seemed quite comfortable with this idea of a pre-Mortal life, or why would they have asked the question? Though I haven’t read the book yet, Terryl Givens has a history of the pre-Mortal life in his book, When Souls Had Wings: Pre-Mortal Existence in Western Thought. Why do you think other religions don’t believe in a pre-Mortal life? It seems pretty obvious to me that it is a biblical idea. Givens says that the pre-Mortal life idea was created to fix many theological conundrums.

There is an interesting distinction between foreordination and predestination. Calvinists believe

“Everyone is predestined…but God doesn’t even make it so that everyone goes to heaven. Some people are predestined for hell and there isn’t anything they can do about their reprobation.”

Let’s contrast that with what the manual says (page 10):

“However, everyone on earth is free to accept or reject any opportunity to serve.”

So, while Mormon theology states that we’re all foreordained to our offices, we can still screw up. Calvinism seems to imply that God plays favorites (at least according to Andrew.) So, which theology do you prefer: predestination or foreordination? (Side note: Calvinism apparently refers to churches which belong to World Communion of Reformed Churches).

==Council in Heaven==
Finally, there is the council in Heaven, with lots of quotes from prophets and LDS scriptures in the manual. I won’t go into that here, but Isaiah 14:12-18 describes the fall from heaven of one called “Lucifer” in the King James Version and the “morning star, son of the dawn” in the NIV. Ezekiel 28 is another passage thought to refer to Lucifer/Satan. Apparently, Lucifer/Satan had a position of guardian angel in heaven “among the fiery stones,” thought to be the shining precious jewels that are seen in other descriptions of heaven (Exodus 24:10; Revelation 21:18-21).

Why is it that evangelicals make such a big deal that Mormons believe Jesus and Satan were brothers? Don’t they? Where did Satan come from?

==Additional Teaching Materials==

==Navigation==
*Next [[GP-Chapter 1]]
*Previous [[GP-Chapter 3]]

[[Category:Relief Society]]
[[Category:Priesthood]]
[[Category:LDS Principles]]

Template:Featured RS/PH Lesson

2010-01-16T23:06:19Z

Mormonheretic: update to new Gospel Principles lessons

The [http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=02df1f7962d43210VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=0ef9f4b13819d110VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD Gospel Principles] can be found here.

We need a lot of help in adding content to this site.

We need help on all other lessons, but expect with current lesson coming up, that we need help with the following:
[[Image:36481cov.jpg|thumb|right|100px|2008-9 Joseph Smith Manual]]

Priesthood/RS Lessons
*[[GP-Chapter 1]] Our Father in Heaven
*[[GP-Chapter 2]] Our Heavenly Family
*[[GP-Chapter 3]] Jesus Christ, Our Chosen Leader and Savior

[[Category:Relief Society]]
[[Category:Priesthood]]
[[Category:Templates]]

User talk:Teacher

2009-04-25T21:57:15Z

Mormonheretic: /* Questions */

Teacher,

Thanks so much for your contributions! I really appreciate your help!
[[User:Reds0xfan|Reds0xfan]] 18:28, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

== Questions ==

I have a couple of quick questions. I have just decided to copyright the stuff that I write for my blog (Gospel Doctrine Underground). I note at the bottom fo the page that I am not supposed to submit copyrighted material without permission. Is it OK for me to keep posting my stuff gtom Gospel Doctrine Underground? And, is it OK for me to indicate that the stuff I submit is copyrighted?

Thanks.

---
Why are you copywriting your stuff? If you give your permission to have your work here, then it's probably ok. Then again, that might conflict with the GNU license if you don't want others copying your work.

I'm no lawyer, but if you promise not to sue, it's probably ok. Otherwise it should be removed. [[User:Mormonheretic|Mormonheretic]] 21:57, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Template:Featured Gospel Doctrine Lesson

2009-04-25T21:53:56Z

Mormonheretic: update lessons

The [http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=d7561b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=f03f9207f7c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____ Doctrine and Covenants Manual] can be found here.

We need a lot of help in adding content to this site.

We need help on all other lessons, but expect with current lesson coming up, that we need help with the following:
[[Image:BC1833.jpg|thumb|right|100px|Replica of [http://www.ldssundayschool.org/Book_of_Commandments Book of Commandments] 1833 edition]]

New Testament Lessons
*[[DC-Lesson 15]] "Seek Ye Earnestly the Best Gifts”
*[[DC-Lesson 16]] "Thou Shalt … Offer Up Thy Sacraments upon My Holy Day”
*[[DC-Lesson 17]] The Law of Tithing and the Law of the Fast
*[[DC-Lesson 18]] “Establish … a House of God”

A chronology and church history maps can be found [http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=32c41b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=7b709207f7c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1&contentLocale=0 here.]

[[Category:Doctrine & Covenants]]
[[Category:Templates]]

DC-Lesson 14

2009-04-25T21:51:38Z

Mormonheretic: move reference

''' The Law of Consecration '''

{{D&C top}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==

===Joseph Smith and Wealth Redistribution ===
The Law of Consecration offers a lot of interesting discussion topics and ideas. As a political junkie, one of the most interesting concepts tied up in consecration is the idea of equality. The Book of Mormon has some interesting passages regarding equality; I cannot help thinking that they got Joseph thinking about economics and righteousness. Or, the impact of temporal things upon righteousness, anyway.

So, when the Lord gives the newly organized Church his Law, equality is a big issue. Nowhere is this more powerfully stated than in Section 78, where the Lord tells his people that the time has come , “[t]hat you may be equal in the bonds of heavenly things, yea, and earthly things also, for the obtaining of heavenly things. For if ye are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things; For if you will that I give unto a place in the celestial world you must prepare yourselves by doing the things which I have commanded you and required of you.” (D&C 78:5-7).

The idea just has the ring of revelation. If we were all equal, think of the problems we could avoid. There would be no poor, at least in the relative sense within the Church. There would be less pride and envy and greed. It would be much easier to avoid materialism if everyone was on an even plane, economically. Equality is a great idea, right?

On the other hand, as Joseph soon learned, voluntary consecration is hard to achieve. As an initial practical matter, there must be a “critical mass” of wealth to sustain the group. But once that is achieved, not everyone will easily overcome their temporal desires. For those who can, it is hard to be equal with someone who is not particularly interested in being equal with you. If you don’t have everyone on board, the whole system is destined for failure. As Richard Bushman points out in Rough Stone Rolling (p. 183),

The system never worked properly. The lack of property to distribute among the poverty-stricken early saints hampered the system’s effectiveness from the start. Joseph struggled on, aided by [Edward] Partridge and loyal Colesville Saints, who made up a large part of the Mormon population in Zion. In 1833, the Mormon’s expulsion from Jackson County would close down everything. The system’s two year existence was about average for the various communal experiments being undertaken in the period.

So what about consecration for you and me, today? I have to say, many members of my ward are kind and generous and charitable - - much more so than I. I truly believe that they take their commitment to consecration seriously. But, I do not see any big push to be “equal in earthly things.” In fact, most of my ward members seem downright resistant to the wealth equalization, Obama-style. (I know, I know, it’s not the same, but still . . .)

So what do you think? Is earthly equality a something to shoot for? Or is it a heavenly aspiration we cannot achieve in the real world? Could Joseph ever have made it work by free will alone, without an economic or political system to reinforce (enforce?) it? Why has the Church implemented it in only the loosest sense? And, would Joseph have voted for the Obama tax and budget plans?

==External Links==
*[http://gosepldoctrineunderground.blogspot.com/ Gosepl Doctrine Underground]

==Navigation==
*Next [[DC-Lesson 15]]
*Previous [[DC-Lesson 13]]

[[Category:Doctrine & Covenants]]
[[Category:Gospel Doctrine D&C]]

Sidney Rigdon

2009-04-25T21:45:14Z

Mormonheretic: create page

Sidney Rigdon was born in 1793 near St. Clair Township, Pennsylvania. He was the son of a farmer, who did not want Sidney to become a preacher. However, Sidney eventually made the acquaintance of Alexander Campbell, leader of the Campbellite movement, a subset of the Reformed Baptist Movement. (Campbell’s group later became the Disciples of Christ.) Rigdon eventually established a congregation in Ohio. He was known as a great orator, and held many religious debates with ministers in the surrounding area.

==Conversion==
[[Parley P Pratt]] learned of the [[Book of Mormon]] on a boat stop on the Erie Canal. His conversion on Sept 1, 1830 is well-documented in the movie, How Rare a Possession, put out by the church. Pratt was hopeful that Rigdon would receive that message, and arrived with Oliver Cowdery. Sidney was at first quite skeptical of the Book of Mormon, and is said to have thrown the book down and said it was fiction. However, he kept reading, and eventually joined the LDS church in November or December 1830.

He announced his conversion to the congregation he administered, and as many as 100 people converted with him. However, as a result of his conversion, the congregation evicted him from the partially completed home owned by the congregation.

==LDS Leadership==
Rigdon finally met Smith in Dec 1830, and the two became fast friends. Rigdon soon became a counselor in the [[First Presidency]], and was Joseph Smith's Vice Presidential candidate in 1844, just before Joseph was killed.

==Life After Martyrdom==
Rigdon felt inspired to lead teh church after the death of the prophet. While there was much debate about who would lead teh church in the aftermath of Joseph's death, [[Brigham Young]] took over leadership of the church. Rigdon was excommunicated by Young, and returned to Pennsylvania, and established his own brand of Mormonism, called the Church of Jesus Christ of the Children of Zion, also known as the Rigdonites. The church faltered, and eventually was observed by William Bickerton's group (the Bickertonites), which still revere Rigdon.

==External Links==
*[http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/03/12/sidney-rigdon/ Sidney's life, Part 1]
*[http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/03/23/sketch-of-sidney-rigdon-part-2/ Sidney's life, Part 2]
*[http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/03/25/sidney-rigdon-part-3/ Sidney's life, Part 3]
*[http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/03/27/sidney-joseph-a-strained-friendship-part-4/ Sidney's life, Part 4]
*[http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/03/30/sidney-rigdon-after-the-martyrdom-part-5/ Sidney's life, Part 5]
*[http://mormonmatters.org/2009/02/02/the-curious-case-of-solomon-spaulding/ The Curious case of Solomon Spaulding]
*[http://graceforgrace.com/2008/02/18/lds-church-vs-church-of-jesus-christ-bickertonites-vs-rlds-community-of-christ/ The Bickertonites]

RS-Lesson 22

2009-02-26T23:24:24Z

Mormonheretic: add Hawkgrrrl's lesson

''' Gaining Knowledge of Eternal Truths '''

{{RS-PH top}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
Mormonism has a focus on gaining knowledge that is unique in Christendom, largely due to the emphasis that Joseph Smith placed on learning. Joseph’s total open-mindedness to both revelation and all forms of learning are central to the Mormon religion; this open-mindedness had potential for both good and bad outcomes. The lesson discusses two main concepts: what is “knowledge,” and how do we gain it?

==What is Knowledge?==

“Mormonism is truth; and every man who embraces it feels himself at liberty to embrace every truth: consequently the shackles of superstition, bigotry, ignorance, and priestcraft, fall at once from his neck; and his eyes are opened to see the truth, and truth greatly prevails over priestcraft.” (1839)

(Note the singular use of the word “truth.”) How does an open canon (ongoing revelation) enable members of the church to accept all truth as it is revealed regardless of the superstition, bigotry, ignorance or priestcraft of the day? How does ignorance, bigotry, superstition and priestcraft still creep in? What can individual members do to embrace truth and eschew superstition, priestcraft, bigotry and ignorance?

“Knowledge is necessary to life and godliness. Woe unto you priests and divines who preach that knowledge is not necessary unto life and salvation. Take away Apostles, etc., take away knowledge, and you will find yourselves worthy of the damnation of hell. Knowledge is revelation. Hear, all ye brethren, this grand key: knowledge is the power of God unto salvation.” (1843)

Joseph Smith takes his definition of “knowledge” for granted. He seems to use it to mean revelation, not facts, scientific evidence or information. How does this definition alter our view of the role of knowledge in our salvation?

==How to Gain Knowledge==

The lesson gives examples of how to gain knowledge, all of which are based on learning from those who know more, not through scientific experimentation or scholarly research. Even revelation can be viewed as gaining knowledge from a Person (God) who knows more than we do.

How can we seek out the best teachers?

What Are the Obstacles to Gaining Knowledge?

The lesson outlines several obstacles to gaining knowledge (or one might say obstacles to revelation): Word of Wisdom violations, creeds, and doubt and darkness.

==Word of Wisdom==
When the School of Prophets was convened for 4 months of study, the Word of Wisdom was given to the members of the school so their minds would be clear and open to “knowledge.” (Not as a temperance movement or a cultural marker of obedience as it is used today). How does considering this original view of the Word of Wisdom change your perception of it?

==Creeds==
[[Joseph Smith]] specifically felt that other religions’ adherence to creeds was an obstacle to “knowledge” (remember that he used the word knowledge synonymously with revelation).

I stated that the most prominent difference in sentiment between the Latter-day Saints and sectarians was, that the latter were all circumscribed by some peculiar creed, which deprived its members the privilege of believing anything not contained therein, whereas the Latter-day Saints are ready to believe all true principles that exist, as they are made manifest from time to time.” (1843)

“I cannot believe in any of the creeds of the different denominations, because they all have some things in them I cannot subscribe to, though all of them have some truth. I want to come up into the presence of God, and learn all things; but the creeds set up stakes [limits], and say, ‘Hitherto shalt thou come, and no further’; which I cannot subscribe to.” (1843)

“I say to all those who are disposed to set up stakes for the Almighty, You will come short of the glory of God. To become a joint heir of the heirship of the Son, one must put away all his false traditions.” (1843)

How do creeds limit our ability to receive revelation or accept changes to our current thinking and interpretations?

How do creeds compare with the efforts to correlate church materials (rather than remaining completely open to multiple interpretations and speculations)?

There are times when this total open-mindedness seemed to cause Joseph problems (e.g. Kinderhook, etc.). Are there ways in which this complete open-mindedness can cause current members problems (e.g. speculation, wishful thinking, foolish notions)? How can we avoid that?

==Doubt and Darkness==
When we listen to teachers who do not have more (spiritual) knowledge than we do, or we allow doubt to overcome belief, we stop gaining additional (spiritual) knowledge.

“Knowledge does away with darkness, suspense and doubt; for these cannot exist where knowledge is. In knowledge there is power. God has more power than all other beings, because He has greater knowledge; and hence He knows how to subject all other beings to Him. He has power over all.” (1843)

“When men open their lips against [the truth] they do not injure me, but injure themselves. When things that are of the greatest importance are passed over by weak-minded men without even a thought, I want to see truth in all its bearings and hug it to my bosom. I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.” (1844)

“As far as we degenerate from God, we descend to the devil and lose knowledge, and without knowledge we cannot be saved, and while our hearts are filled with evil, and we are studying evil, there is no room in our hearts for good, or studying good. Is not God good? Then you be good; if He is faithful, then you be faithful. Add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, and seek for every good thing. A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world, as evil spirits will have more knowledge, and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. Hence it needs revelation to assist us, and give us knowledge of the things of God.” (1842)

How do we sometimes let doubt create distance between us and additional spiritual knowledge? How does listening to bad (spiritual) teaching cause us to lose (spiritual) knowledge?

Does pursuit of knowledge (facts, information) sometimes lead to loss of knowledge (spiritual knowledge, revelation, closeness to God)? How can we avoid that while still embracing learning?

==Navigation==
*Next [[RS-Lesson 23]]
*Previous [[RS-Lesson 21]]

==External Links==
*[http://mormonmatters.org/2008/12/07/virtual-rsph-22-gaining-knowledge-of-eternal-truths/ Original Post on Mormon Matters]

[[Category:Joseph Smith]]
[[Category:Church History]]
[[Category:RS/Priesthood Manuals]]

RS-Lesson 18

2009-02-26T23:18:22Z

Mormonheretic: /* True Nature of Hell */ formatting

''' Beyond the Veil: Life in the Eternities '''

{{RS-PH top}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
This week’s lesson might sound like a repeat from the previous lesson on [[Plan of Salvation]], but it is much more specifically focused on one of my favorite aspects of our theology: the [[3 degrees of glory]][.

The majority of the lesson centers on section 76 of the [Doctrine and Covenants]], which relates a vision received by [[Joseph Smith]] and [[Sidney Rigdon]] in the [[John Johnson]] home in Hiram, OH (where both were tarred & feathered by the mob, injuring Sidney Ridgon’s head in the process, which always made me wonder if he was quite right after that. But I digress.) The photo to the right is the actual room in which they received it. Joseph Smith had been working on his translation of the Bible in 1832 (in the actual room in the picture).

*“From sundry revelations which had been received,” the Prophet later said, “it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of man had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled. It appeared self-evident from what truths were left, that if God rewarded every one according to the deeds done in the body, the term ‘Heaven,’ as intended for the Saints’ eternal home, must include more kingdoms than one.” (1832)

Joseph had just read John 5:29:

*And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

When he and Sidney were pondering what this meant, a vision opened to them in which they saw God the Father, Jesus on his right hand, the three degrees of glory, and Satan separated from the rest with those who follow him. This is an interesting example of an effort to translate resulting in an entirely new revelation, similar to the [[Book of Moses]] and Matthew 24 in the POGP.

===Comments and Questions===

Why do three degrees of glory make more sense than just Heaven & Hell? (In Mormon Speak, how does this scripture restore many plain and precious truths?)

==Eternal Progression==

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. [The righteous who have died] shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with [[Jesus Christ]]. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. (1844)

This manual is just full of [[King Follett]] discourse.

===Comments and Questions===

Is this idea intimidating or does the idea of progress make it easier to handle?

In our eternal progression, why do you think we need to improve “from one small degree to another”? Is this how you learn and grow? Why do some people stop progressing?
Celestial Seating Chart

Here’s the lowdown on who’s who in the [[Celestial Kingdom]] from D&C 76:

* they are they who received the testimony of Jesus, (received meaning accepted or just heard it?)
* and believed on his name (so, must be Christian, at least eventually)
* and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—that by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; (so, correct ordinances are necessary. Because of the rite itself or because of making a commitment and promise that changes your demeanor?)
* and who overcome by faith, (rather than by logic, brute force or personality)
* and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true. (sealed in marriage or through being endowed? does this mean communal salvation - e.g. being sealed to all the Saints?)
* They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. (I always wonder if we’re talking about Jesus or Adam on this one).
* They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things— (given all things in this life or the hereafter? things meaning “truths” or actual things? This seems to contrast with the telestial people below who are getting tripped up by God; maybe this is just a byproduct of being free from the snares of our own bad behavior.)
* they are they who are priests and kings, (but HUMBLE priests & kings, priestesses & queens)
* who have received of his fulness, (what is ‘his fulness’? shrank not to drink the bitter cup? being aware of and accepting the fulness of truths? something else?)
* and of his glory; (so, to receive of his glory, we have to be sanctified enough not to be consumed by it)
* and are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son. (why does Melchizedek always get so much credit? BOM usually just lists the order of the Son of God. Where are the editors?)
* Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God— (does “sons of God” qualify or soften the meaning here, making it clear we are not “equal” with God?)
* wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. (much better version of community property. It’s all about who’s pitching in, after all.)
* These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
* These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all. (This doesn’t refer to men as “judges in Israel,” so maybe those guys are less empowered subordinates with a multi-level hierarchical approval process for damning people; or maybe it’s like an interview process and God & Jesus are the ultimate decision makers).
* These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood. (I love that phrase “just men made perfect.” Not perfect men made judges.)
* These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical. (More on the bodies in a moment).

===Questions and Comments===
In the description of those who will inherit celestial, terrestrial, and telestial glory, the phrase “the testimony of Jesus” is used five times. What are the characteristics of a person who is “valiant in the testimony of Jesus”?

==Terrestrial Kingdom==

There’s a list of those who will receive Terrestrial glory in D&C 76: 81-85, 100-106, 110-112:

* “Behold, these are they who died without law; (so, like those guys in the Blue Lagoon? Does this mean they can’t inherit celestial under any circumstances? That doesn’t sound quite right.)
* and also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it. (So, what if they never heard it in the first place or had really bad missionaries?)
* “These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men. (Unwitting dupes?)
* These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness. (Interesting word choice. So, what is “his fulness”?)
* These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. (Christians who reject theosis? ‘Cause that’s what it sounds like.)
* “Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun. (That makes me wonder - are our resurrected bodies better or worse based on degrees of glory - e.g. no cellulite in Celestial? That’s motivating!)
* These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.” (”not valiant” means what? And “crown over the kingdom” implies we rule rather than being subjects.)

===Questions and Comments===
How can we avoid being “blinded by the craftiness of men”? What can we do to help others avoid being blinded?

==Telestial Kingdom==

Here’s the description of Telestial glory from D&C 76:

* These are they who are liars, (Are they all going to be confused when they start talking to each other and don’t know who is lying and who’s not? Will it be like a cutthroat soap opera?)
* and sorcerers, (Like David Copperfield? What about Houdini?)
* and adulterers, (Wouldn’t it be weird if you’re all saving your DH’s seat in the CK, and he just doesn’t show, and then you find out this way?)
* and whoremongers, (Pimps? Words like “whoremonger” make me think we could use a NIV of LDS scriptures)
* and whosoever loves and makes a lie. (I always wonder if that means “loves a lie” or “lies about love”?)
* These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. (So, God’s tripping them up on earth? Is that because they lost the light of Christ and had to deal with the natural consequences of their bad choices?)
* These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. (Although, as we’ll see below, this is more like “they feel horrid” than Hell = Guantanamo 2).
* These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work. (So, they just suffer until then. There’s an end in sight apparently.)

===Comments and Questions===

Is this a better alternative to traditional notions of “Hell”?

==True Nature of Hell==

“The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers.” (1843)

“A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. I say, so is the torment of man. Some shall rise to the everlasting burnings of God, for God dwells in everlasting burnings, and some shall rise to the damnation of their own filthiness, which is as exquisite a torment as the lake of fire and brimstone.” (1844)

===Comments and Questions===

How can a man be “his own tormentor and his own condemner”? Does this make Hell seem more just?

To the teachers: Please share any other thoughts or tips you have for fellow teachers out there. Most of this lesson is just reading from D&C 76 about the different kingdoms; it might be fun to do a puzzle to get through the material (e.g. a “fill in the blanks” as you read through D&C together or a “sorting” puzzle to put the descriptions in the right kingdoms).

To the rest of you: What are your thoughts about the 3 degrees of Glory and the insights from D&C 76? Personally, this is one of my favorite aspects of our theology because everyone’s a winner (comparatively)! Discuss.

==External Links==
*[http://mormonmatters.org/2008/10/05/virtual-rsph-18-beyond-the-veil-life-in-the-eternities/ Original post on Mormon Matters]

==Navigation==
*Next [[RS-Lesson 19]]
*Previous [[RS-Lesson 17]]

[[Category:Joseph Smith]]
[[Category:Church History]]
[[Category:RS/Priesthood Manuals]]

RS-Lesson 18

2009-02-26T23:17:44Z

Mormonheretic: /* Telestial Kingdom */ formatting

''' Beyond the Veil: Life in the Eternities '''

{{RS-PH top}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
This week’s lesson might sound like a repeat from the previous lesson on [[Plan of Salvation]], but it is much more specifically focused on one of my favorite aspects of our theology: the [[3 degrees of glory]][.

The majority of the lesson centers on section 76 of the [Doctrine and Covenants]], which relates a vision received by [[Joseph Smith]] and [[Sidney Rigdon]] in the [[John Johnson]] home in Hiram, OH (where both were tarred & feathered by the mob, injuring Sidney Ridgon’s head in the process, which always made me wonder if he was quite right after that. But I digress.) The photo to the right is the actual room in which they received it. Joseph Smith had been working on his translation of the Bible in 1832 (in the actual room in the picture).

*“From sundry revelations which had been received,” the Prophet later said, “it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of man had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled. It appeared self-evident from what truths were left, that if God rewarded every one according to the deeds done in the body, the term ‘Heaven,’ as intended for the Saints’ eternal home, must include more kingdoms than one.” (1832)

Joseph had just read John 5:29:

*And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

When he and Sidney were pondering what this meant, a vision opened to them in which they saw God the Father, Jesus on his right hand, the three degrees of glory, and Satan separated from the rest with those who follow him. This is an interesting example of an effort to translate resulting in an entirely new revelation, similar to the [[Book of Moses]] and Matthew 24 in the POGP.

===Comments and Questions===

Why do three degrees of glory make more sense than just Heaven & Hell? (In Mormon Speak, how does this scripture restore many plain and precious truths?)

==Eternal Progression==

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. [The righteous who have died] shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with [[Jesus Christ]]. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. (1844)

This manual is just full of [[King Follett]] discourse.

===Comments and Questions===

Is this idea intimidating or does the idea of progress make it easier to handle?

In our eternal progression, why do you think we need to improve “from one small degree to another”? Is this how you learn and grow? Why do some people stop progressing?
Celestial Seating Chart

Here’s the lowdown on who’s who in the [[Celestial Kingdom]] from D&C 76:

* they are they who received the testimony of Jesus, (received meaning accepted or just heard it?)
* and believed on his name (so, must be Christian, at least eventually)
* and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—that by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; (so, correct ordinances are necessary. Because of the rite itself or because of making a commitment and promise that changes your demeanor?)
* and who overcome by faith, (rather than by logic, brute force or personality)
* and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true. (sealed in marriage or through being endowed? does this mean communal salvation - e.g. being sealed to all the Saints?)
* They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. (I always wonder if we’re talking about Jesus or Adam on this one).
* They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things— (given all things in this life or the hereafter? things meaning “truths” or actual things? This seems to contrast with the telestial people below who are getting tripped up by God; maybe this is just a byproduct of being free from the snares of our own bad behavior.)
* they are they who are priests and kings, (but HUMBLE priests & kings, priestesses & queens)
* who have received of his fulness, (what is ‘his fulness’? shrank not to drink the bitter cup? being aware of and accepting the fulness of truths? something else?)
* and of his glory; (so, to receive of his glory, we have to be sanctified enough not to be consumed by it)
* and are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son. (why does Melchizedek always get so much credit? BOM usually just lists the order of the Son of God. Where are the editors?)
* Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God— (does “sons of God” qualify or soften the meaning here, making it clear we are not “equal” with God?)
* wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. (much better version of community property. It’s all about who’s pitching in, after all.)
* These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
* These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all. (This doesn’t refer to men as “judges in Israel,” so maybe those guys are less empowered subordinates with a multi-level hierarchical approval process for damning people; or maybe it’s like an interview process and God & Jesus are the ultimate decision makers).
* These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood. (I love that phrase “just men made perfect.” Not perfect men made judges.)
* These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical. (More on the bodies in a moment).

===Questions and Comments===
In the description of those who will inherit celestial, terrestrial, and telestial glory, the phrase “the testimony of Jesus” is used five times. What are the characteristics of a person who is “valiant in the testimony of Jesus”?

==Terrestrial Kingdom==

There’s a list of those who will receive Terrestrial glory in D&C 76: 81-85, 100-106, 110-112:

* “Behold, these are they who died without law; (so, like those guys in the Blue Lagoon? Does this mean they can’t inherit celestial under any circumstances? That doesn’t sound quite right.)
* and also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it. (So, what if they never heard it in the first place or had really bad missionaries?)
* “These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men. (Unwitting dupes?)
* These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness. (Interesting word choice. So, what is “his fulness”?)
* These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. (Christians who reject theosis? ‘Cause that’s what it sounds like.)
* “Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun. (That makes me wonder - are our resurrected bodies better or worse based on degrees of glory - e.g. no cellulite in Celestial? That’s motivating!)
* These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.” (”not valiant” means what? And “crown over the kingdom” implies we rule rather than being subjects.)

===Questions and Comments===
How can we avoid being “blinded by the craftiness of men”? What can we do to help others avoid being blinded?

==Telestial Kingdom==

Here’s the description of Telestial glory from D&C 76:

* These are they who are liars, (Are they all going to be confused when they start talking to each other and don’t know who is lying and who’s not? Will it be like a cutthroat soap opera?)
* and sorcerers, (Like David Copperfield? What about Houdini?)
* and adulterers, (Wouldn’t it be weird if you’re all saving your DH’s seat in the CK, and he just doesn’t show, and then you find out this way?)
* and whoremongers, (Pimps? Words like “whoremonger” make me think we could use a NIV of LDS scriptures)
* and whosoever loves and makes a lie. (I always wonder if that means “loves a lie” or “lies about love”?)
* These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. (So, God’s tripping them up on earth? Is that because they lost the light of Christ and had to deal with the natural consequences of their bad choices?)
* These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. (Although, as we’ll see below, this is more like “they feel horrid” than Hell = Guantanamo 2).
* These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work. (So, they just suffer until then. There’s an end in sight apparently.)

===Comments and Questions===

Is this a better alternative to traditional notions of “Hell”?

==True Nature of Hell==

“The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers.” (1843)

“A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. I say, so is the torment of man. Some shall rise to the everlasting burnings of God, for God dwells in everlasting burnings, and some shall rise to the damnation of their own filthiness, which is as exquisite a torment as the lake of fire and brimstone.” (1844)

===Comments and Questions===

How can a man be “his own tormentor and his own condemner”? Does this make Hell seem more just?

To the teachers: Please share any other thoughts or tips you have for fellow teachers out there. Most of this lesson is just reading from D&C 76 about the different kingdoms; it might be fun to do a puzzle to get through the material (e.g. a “fill in the blanks” as you read through D&C together or a “sorting” puzzle to put the descriptions in the right kingdoms).

To the rest of you: What are your thoughts about the 3 degrees of Glory and the insights from D&C 76? Personally, this is one of my favorite aspects of our theology because everyone’s a winner (comparatively)! Discuss.
==External Links==
*[http://mormonmatters.org/2008/10/05/virtual-rsph-18-beyond-the-veil-life-in-the-eternities/ Original post on Mormon Matters]

==Navigation==
*Next [[RS-Lesson 19]]
*Previous [[RS-Lesson 17]]

[[Category:Joseph Smith]]
[[Category:Church History]]
[[Category:RS/Priesthood Manuals]]

RS-Lesson 18

2009-02-26T23:16:40Z

Mormonheretic: /* Terrestrial Kingdom */ formatting

''' Beyond the Veil: Life in the Eternities '''

{{RS-PH top}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
This week’s lesson might sound like a repeat from the previous lesson on [[Plan of Salvation]], but it is much more specifically focused on one of my favorite aspects of our theology: the [[3 degrees of glory]][.

The majority of the lesson centers on section 76 of the [Doctrine and Covenants]], which relates a vision received by [[Joseph Smith]] and [[Sidney Rigdon]] in the [[John Johnson]] home in Hiram, OH (where both were tarred & feathered by the mob, injuring Sidney Ridgon’s head in the process, which always made me wonder if he was quite right after that. But I digress.) The photo to the right is the actual room in which they received it. Joseph Smith had been working on his translation of the Bible in 1832 (in the actual room in the picture).

*“From sundry revelations which had been received,” the Prophet later said, “it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of man had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled. It appeared self-evident from what truths were left, that if God rewarded every one according to the deeds done in the body, the term ‘Heaven,’ as intended for the Saints’ eternal home, must include more kingdoms than one.” (1832)

Joseph had just read John 5:29:

*And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

When he and Sidney were pondering what this meant, a vision opened to them in which they saw God the Father, Jesus on his right hand, the three degrees of glory, and Satan separated from the rest with those who follow him. This is an interesting example of an effort to translate resulting in an entirely new revelation, similar to the [[Book of Moses]] and Matthew 24 in the POGP.

===Comments and Questions===

Why do three degrees of glory make more sense than just Heaven & Hell? (In Mormon Speak, how does this scripture restore many plain and precious truths?)

==Eternal Progression==

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. [The righteous who have died] shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with [[Jesus Christ]]. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. (1844)

This manual is just full of [[King Follett]] discourse.

===Comments and Questions===

Is this idea intimidating or does the idea of progress make it easier to handle?

In our eternal progression, why do you think we need to improve “from one small degree to another”? Is this how you learn and grow? Why do some people stop progressing?
Celestial Seating Chart

Here’s the lowdown on who’s who in the [[Celestial Kingdom]] from D&C 76:

* they are they who received the testimony of Jesus, (received meaning accepted or just heard it?)
* and believed on his name (so, must be Christian, at least eventually)
* and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—that by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; (so, correct ordinances are necessary. Because of the rite itself or because of making a commitment and promise that changes your demeanor?)
* and who overcome by faith, (rather than by logic, brute force or personality)
* and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true. (sealed in marriage or through being endowed? does this mean communal salvation - e.g. being sealed to all the Saints?)
* They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. (I always wonder if we’re talking about Jesus or Adam on this one).
* They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things— (given all things in this life or the hereafter? things meaning “truths” or actual things? This seems to contrast with the telestial people below who are getting tripped up by God; maybe this is just a byproduct of being free from the snares of our own bad behavior.)
* they are they who are priests and kings, (but HUMBLE priests & kings, priestesses & queens)
* who have received of his fulness, (what is ‘his fulness’? shrank not to drink the bitter cup? being aware of and accepting the fulness of truths? something else?)
* and of his glory; (so, to receive of his glory, we have to be sanctified enough not to be consumed by it)
* and are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son. (why does Melchizedek always get so much credit? BOM usually just lists the order of the Son of God. Where are the editors?)
* Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God— (does “sons of God” qualify or soften the meaning here, making it clear we are not “equal” with God?)
* wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. (much better version of community property. It’s all about who’s pitching in, after all.)
* These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
* These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all. (This doesn’t refer to men as “judges in Israel,” so maybe those guys are less empowered subordinates with a multi-level hierarchical approval process for damning people; or maybe it’s like an interview process and God & Jesus are the ultimate decision makers).
* These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood. (I love that phrase “just men made perfect.” Not perfect men made judges.)
* These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical. (More on the bodies in a moment).

===Questions and Comments===
In the description of those who will inherit celestial, terrestrial, and telestial glory, the phrase “the testimony of Jesus” is used five times. What are the characteristics of a person who is “valiant in the testimony of Jesus”?

==Terrestrial Kingdom==

There’s a list of those who will receive Terrestrial glory in D&C 76: 81-85, 100-106, 110-112:

* “Behold, these are they who died without law; (so, like those guys in the Blue Lagoon? Does this mean they can’t inherit celestial under any circumstances? That doesn’t sound quite right.)
* and also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it. (So, what if they never heard it in the first place or had really bad missionaries?)
* “These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men. (Unwitting dupes?)
* These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness. (Interesting word choice. So, what is “his fulness”?)
* These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. (Christians who reject theosis? ‘Cause that’s what it sounds like.)
* “Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun. (That makes me wonder - are our resurrected bodies better or worse based on degrees of glory - e.g. no cellulite in Celestial? That’s motivating!)
* These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.” (”not valiant” means what? And “crown over the kingdom” implies we rule rather than being subjects.)

===Questions and Comments===
How can we avoid being “blinded by the craftiness of men”? What can we do to help others avoid being blinded?

==Telestial Kingdom==

Here’s the description of Telestial glory from D&C 76:

* These are they who are liars, (Are they all going to be confused when they start talking to each other and don’t know who is lying and who’s not? Will it be like a cutthroat soap opera?)
* and sorcerers, (Like David Copperfield? What about Houdini?)
* and adulterers, (Wouldn’t it be weird if you’re all saving your DH’s seat in the CK, and he just doesn’t show, and then you find out this way?)
* and whoremongers, (Pimps? Words like “whoremonger” make me think we could use a NIV of LDS scriptures)
* and whosoever loves and makes a lie. (I always wonder if that means “loves a lie” or “lies about love”?)
* These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. (So, God’s tripping them up on earth? Is that because they lost the light of Christ and had to deal with the natural consequences of their bad choices?)
* These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. (Although, as we’ll see below, this is more like “they feel horrid” than Hell = Guantanamo 2).
* These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work. (So, they just suffer until then. There’s an end in sight apparently.)

===Comments and Questions===

Is this a better alternative to traditional notions of “Hell”?

==True Nature of Hell==

“The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers.” (1843)

“A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. I say, so is the torment of man. Some shall rise to the everlasting burnings of God, for God dwells in everlasting burnings, and some shall rise to the damnation of their own filthiness, which is as exquisite a torment as the lake of fire and brimstone.” (1844)

===Comments and Questions===

How can a man be “his own tormentor and his own condemner”? Does this make Hell seem more just?

To the teachers: Please share any other thoughts or tips you have for fellow teachers out there. Most of this lesson is just reading from D&C 76 about the different kingdoms; it might be fun to do a puzzle to get through the material (e.g. a “fill in the blanks” as you read through D&C together or a “sorting” puzzle to put the descriptions in the right kingdoms).

To the rest of you: What are your thoughts about the 3 degrees of Glory and the insights from D&C 76? Personally, this is one of my favorite aspects of our theology because everyone’s a winner (comparatively)! Discuss.
==External Links==
*[http://mormonmatters.org/2008/10/05/virtual-rsph-18-beyond-the-veil-life-in-the-eternities/ Original post on Mormon Matters]

==Navigation==
*Next [[RS-Lesson 19]]
*Previous [[RS-Lesson 17]]

[[Category:Joseph Smith]]
[[Category:Church History]]
[[Category:RS/Priesthood Manuals]]

RS-Lesson 18

2009-02-26T23:15:32Z

Mormonheretic: /* Eternal Progression */ formatting

''' Beyond the Veil: Life in the Eternities '''

{{RS-PH top}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
This week’s lesson might sound like a repeat from the previous lesson on [[Plan of Salvation]], but it is much more specifically focused on one of my favorite aspects of our theology: the [[3 degrees of glory]][.

The majority of the lesson centers on section 76 of the [Doctrine and Covenants]], which relates a vision received by [[Joseph Smith]] and [[Sidney Rigdon]] in the [[John Johnson]] home in Hiram, OH (where both were tarred & feathered by the mob, injuring Sidney Ridgon’s head in the process, which always made me wonder if he was quite right after that. But I digress.) The photo to the right is the actual room in which they received it. Joseph Smith had been working on his translation of the Bible in 1832 (in the actual room in the picture).

*“From sundry revelations which had been received,” the Prophet later said, “it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of man had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled. It appeared self-evident from what truths were left, that if God rewarded every one according to the deeds done in the body, the term ‘Heaven,’ as intended for the Saints’ eternal home, must include more kingdoms than one.” (1832)

Joseph had just read John 5:29:

*And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

When he and Sidney were pondering what this meant, a vision opened to them in which they saw God the Father, Jesus on his right hand, the three degrees of glory, and Satan separated from the rest with those who follow him. This is an interesting example of an effort to translate resulting in an entirely new revelation, similar to the [[Book of Moses]] and Matthew 24 in the POGP.

===Comments and Questions===

Why do three degrees of glory make more sense than just Heaven & Hell? (In Mormon Speak, how does this scripture restore many plain and precious truths?)

==Eternal Progression==

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. [The righteous who have died] shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with [[Jesus Christ]]. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. (1844)

This manual is just full of [[King Follett]] discourse.

===Comments and Questions===

Is this idea intimidating or does the idea of progress make it easier to handle?

In our eternal progression, why do you think we need to improve “from one small degree to another”? Is this how you learn and grow? Why do some people stop progressing?
Celestial Seating Chart

Here’s the lowdown on who’s who in the [[Celestial Kingdom]] from D&C 76:

* they are they who received the testimony of Jesus, (received meaning accepted or just heard it?)
* and believed on his name (so, must be Christian, at least eventually)
* and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—that by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; (so, correct ordinances are necessary. Because of the rite itself or because of making a commitment and promise that changes your demeanor?)
* and who overcome by faith, (rather than by logic, brute force or personality)
* and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true. (sealed in marriage or through being endowed? does this mean communal salvation - e.g. being sealed to all the Saints?)
* They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. (I always wonder if we’re talking about Jesus or Adam on this one).
* They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things— (given all things in this life or the hereafter? things meaning “truths” or actual things? This seems to contrast with the telestial people below who are getting tripped up by God; maybe this is just a byproduct of being free from the snares of our own bad behavior.)
* they are they who are priests and kings, (but HUMBLE priests & kings, priestesses & queens)
* who have received of his fulness, (what is ‘his fulness’? shrank not to drink the bitter cup? being aware of and accepting the fulness of truths? something else?)
* and of his glory; (so, to receive of his glory, we have to be sanctified enough not to be consumed by it)
* and are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son. (why does Melchizedek always get so much credit? BOM usually just lists the order of the Son of God. Where are the editors?)
* Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God— (does “sons of God” qualify or soften the meaning here, making it clear we are not “equal” with God?)
* wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. (much better version of community property. It’s all about who’s pitching in, after all.)
* These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
* These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all. (This doesn’t refer to men as “judges in Israel,” so maybe those guys are less empowered subordinates with a multi-level hierarchical approval process for damning people; or maybe it’s like an interview process and God & Jesus are the ultimate decision makers).
* These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood. (I love that phrase “just men made perfect.” Not perfect men made judges.)
* These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical. (More on the bodies in a moment).

===Questions and Comments===
In the description of those who will inherit celestial, terrestrial, and telestial glory, the phrase “the testimony of Jesus” is used five times. What are the characteristics of a person who is “valiant in the testimony of Jesus”?

==Terrestrial Kingdom==

There’s a list of those who will receive Terrestrial glory in D&C 76: 81-85, 100-106, 110-112:

* “Behold, these are they who died without law; (so, like those guys in the Blue Lagoon? Does this mean they can’t inherit celestial under any circumstances? That doesn’t sound quite right.)
* and also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it. (So, what if they never heard it in the first place or had really bad missionaries?)
* “These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men. (Unwitting dupes?)
* These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness. (Interesting word choice. So, what is “his fulness”?)
* These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. (Christians who reject theosis? ‘Cause that’s what it sounds like.)
* “Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun. (That makes me wonder - are our resurrected bodies better or worse based on degrees of glory - e.g. no cellulite in Celestial? That’s motivating!)
* These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.” (”not valiant” means what? And “crown over the kingdom” implies we rule rather than being subjects.)

===Questions and Comments===
How can we avoid being “blinded by the craftiness of men”? What can we do to help others avoid being blinded?

==Telestial Kingdom==

Here’s the description of Telestial glory from D&C 76:

* These are they who are liars, (Are they all going to be confused when they start talking to each other and don’t know who is lying and who’s not? Will it be like a cutthroat soap opera?)
* and sorcerers, (Like David Copperfield? What about Houdini?)
* and adulterers, (Wouldn’t it be weird if you’re all saving your DH’s seat in the CK, and he just doesn’t show, and then you find out this way?)
* and whoremongers, (Pimps? Words like “whoremonger” make me think we could use a NIV of LDS scriptures)
* and whosoever loves and makes a lie. (I always wonder if that means “loves a lie” or “lies about love”?)
* These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. (So, God’s tripping them up on earth? Is that because they lost the light of Christ and had to deal with the natural consequences of their bad choices?)
* These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. (Although, as we’ll see below, this is more like “they feel horrid” than Hell = Guantanamo 2).
* These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work. (So, they just suffer until then. There’s an end in sight apparently.)

===Comments and Questions===

Is this a better alternative to traditional notions of “Hell”?

==True Nature of Hell==

“The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers.” (1843)

“A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. I say, so is the torment of man. Some shall rise to the everlasting burnings of God, for God dwells in everlasting burnings, and some shall rise to the damnation of their own filthiness, which is as exquisite a torment as the lake of fire and brimstone.” (1844)

===Comments and Questions===

How can a man be “his own tormentor and his own condemner”? Does this make Hell seem more just?

To the teachers: Please share any other thoughts or tips you have for fellow teachers out there. Most of this lesson is just reading from D&C 76 about the different kingdoms; it might be fun to do a puzzle to get through the material (e.g. a “fill in the blanks” as you read through D&C together or a “sorting” puzzle to put the descriptions in the right kingdoms).

To the rest of you: What are your thoughts about the 3 degrees of Glory and the insights from D&C 76? Personally, this is one of my favorite aspects of our theology because everyone’s a winner (comparatively)! Discuss.
==External Links==
*[http://mormonmatters.org/2008/10/05/virtual-rsph-18-beyond-the-veil-life-in-the-eternities/ Original post on Mormon Matters]

==Navigation==
*Next [[RS-Lesson 19]]
*Previous [[RS-Lesson 17]]

[[Category:Joseph Smith]]
[[Category:Church History]]
[[Category:RS/Priesthood Manuals]]

RS-Lesson 18

2009-02-26T23:13:24Z

Mormonheretic: /* Additional Teaching Materials */ formatting

''' Beyond the Veil: Life in the Eternities '''

{{RS-PH top}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==
This week’s lesson might sound like a repeat from the previous lesson on [[Plan of Salvation]], but it is much more specifically focused on one of my favorite aspects of our theology: the [[3 degrees of glory]][.

The majority of the lesson centers on section 76 of the [Doctrine and Covenants]], which relates a vision received by [[Joseph Smith]] and [[Sidney Rigdon]] in the [[John Johnson]] home in Hiram, OH (where both were tarred & feathered by the mob, injuring Sidney Ridgon’s head in the process, which always made me wonder if he was quite right after that. But I digress.) The photo to the right is the actual room in which they received it. Joseph Smith had been working on his translation of the Bible in 1832 (in the actual room in the picture).

*“From sundry revelations which had been received,” the Prophet later said, “it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of man had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled. It appeared self-evident from what truths were left, that if God rewarded every one according to the deeds done in the body, the term ‘Heaven,’ as intended for the Saints’ eternal home, must include more kingdoms than one.” (1832)

Joseph had just read John 5:29:

*And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

When he and Sidney were pondering what this meant, a vision opened to them in which they saw God the Father, Jesus on his right hand, the three degrees of glory, and Satan separated from the rest with those who follow him. This is an interesting example of an effort to translate resulting in an entirely new revelation, similar to the [[Book of Moses]] and Matthew 24 in the POGP.

===Comments and Questions===

Why do three degrees of glory make more sense than just Heaven & Hell? (In Mormon Speak, how does this scripture restore many plain and precious truths?)

==Eternal Progression==

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. [The righteous who have died] shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with [[Jesus Christ]]. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. (1844)

This manual is just full of [[King Follett]] discourse.

===Comments and Questions===

Is this idea intimidating or does the idea of progress make it easier to handle?

In our eternal progression, why do you think we need to improve “from one small degree to another”? Is this how you learn and grow? Why do some people stop progressing?
Celestial Seating Chart

Here’s the lowdown on who’s who in the [[Celestial Kingdom]] from D&C 76:

* they are they who received the testimony of Jesus, (received meaning accepted or just heard it?)
* and believed on his name (so, must be Christian, at least eventually)
* and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—that by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; (so, correct ordinances are necessary. Because of the rite itself or because of making a commitment and promise that changes your demeanor?)
* and who overcome by faith, (rather than by logic, brute force or personality)
* and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true. (sealed in marriage or through being endowed? does this mean communal salvation - e.g. being sealed to all the Saints?)
* They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. (I always wonder if we’re talking about Jesus or Adam on this one).
* They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things— (given all things in this life or the hereafter? things meaning “truths” or actual things? This seems to contrast with the telestial people below who are getting tripped up by God; maybe this is just a byproduct of being free from the snares of our own bad behavior.)
* they are they who are priests and kings, (but HUMBLE priests & kings, priestesses & queens)
* who have received of his fulness, (what is ‘his fulness’? shrank not to drink the bitter cup? being aware of and accepting the fulness of truths? something else?)
* and of his glory; (so, to receive of his glory, we have to be sanctified enough not to be consumed by it)
* and are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son. (why does Melchizedek always get so much credit? BOM usually just lists the order of the Son of God. Where are the editors?)
* Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God— (does “sons of God” qualify or soften the meaning here, making it clear we are not “equal” with God?)
* wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. (much better version of community property. It’s all about who’s pitching in, after all.)
* These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
* These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all. (This doesn’t refer to men as “judges in Israel,” so maybe those guys are less empowered subordinates with a multi-level hierarchical approval process for damning people; or maybe it’s like an interview process and God & Jesus are the ultimate decision makers).
* These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood. (I love that phrase “just men made perfect.” Not perfect men made judges.)
* These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical. (More on the bodies in a moment).

===Questions and Comments===
In the description of those who will inherit celestial, terrestrial, and telestial glory, the phrase “the testimony of Jesus” is used five times. What are the characteristics of a person who is “valiant in the testimony of Jesus”?

==Terrestrial Kingdom==

There’s a list of those who will receive Terrestrial glory in D&C 76: 81-85, 100-106, 110-112:

* “Behold, these are they who died without law; (so, like those guys in the Blue Lagoon? Does this mean they can’t inherit celestial under any circumstances? That doesn’t sound quite right.)
* and also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it. (So, what if they never heard it in the first place or had really bad missionaries?)
* “These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men. (Unwitting dupes?)
* These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness. (Interesting word choice. So, what is “his fulness”?)
* These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. (Christians who reject theosis? ‘Cause that’s what it sounds like.)
* “Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun. (That makes me wonder - are our resurrected bodies better or worse based on degrees of glory - e.g. no cellulite in Celestial? That’s motivating!)
* These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.” (”not valiant” means what? And “crown over the kingdom” implies we rule rather than being subjects.)

===Questions and Comments===
How can we avoid being “blinded by the craftiness of men”? What can we do to help others avoid being blinded?

==Telestial Kingdom==

Here’s the description of Telestial glory from D&C 76:

* These are they who are liars, (Are they all going to be confused when they start talking to each other and don’t know who is lying and who’s not? Will it be like a cutthroat soap opera?)
* and sorcerers, (Like David Copperfield? What about Houdini?)
* and adulterers, (Wouldn’t it be weird if you’re all saving your DH’s seat in the CK, and he just doesn’t show, and then you find out this way?)
* and whoremongers, (Pimps? Words like “whoremonger” make me think we could use a NIV of LDS scriptures)
* and whosoever loves and makes a lie. (I always wonder if that means “loves a lie” or “lies about love”?)
* These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. (So, God’s tripping them up on earth? Is that because they lost the light of Christ and had to deal with the natural consequences of their bad choices?)
* These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. (Although, as we’ll see below, this is more like “they feel horrid” than Hell = Guantanamo 2).
* These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work. (So, they just suffer until then. There’s an end in sight apparently.)

===Comments and Questions===

Is this a better alternative to traditional notions of “Hell”?

==True Nature of Hell==

“The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers.” (1843)

“A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. I say, so is the torment of man. Some shall rise to the everlasting burnings of God, for God dwells in everlasting burnings, and some shall rise to the damnation of their own filthiness, which is as exquisite a torment as the lake of fire and brimstone.” (1844)

===Comments and Questions===

How can a man be “his own tormentor and his own condemner”? Does this make Hell seem more just?

To the teachers: Please share any other thoughts or tips you have for fellow teachers out there. Most of this lesson is just reading from D&C 76 about the different kingdoms; it might be fun to do a puzzle to get through the material (e.g. a “fill in the blanks” as you read through D&C together or a “sorting” puzzle to put the descriptions in the right kingdoms).

To the rest of you: What are your thoughts about the 3 degrees of Glory and the insights from D&C 76? Personally, this is one of my favorite aspects of our theology because everyone’s a winner (comparatively)! Discuss.
==External Links==
*[http://mormonmatters.org/2008/10/05/virtual-rsph-18-beyond-the-veil-life-in-the-eternities/ Original post on Mormon Matters]

==Navigation==
*Next [[RS-Lesson 19]]
*Previous [[RS-Lesson 17]]

[[Category:Joseph Smith]]
[[Category:Church History]]
[[Category:RS/Priesthood Manuals]]

RS-Lesson 21

2009-02-26T23:11:37Z

Mormonheretic: /* The Millenium */ fix formatting

''' The Second Coming & The Millenium '''

{{RS-PH top}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==

Sometimes we forget that the early restored church focused a lot on the millenium, which many of them believed was imminent. As if they didn’t have enough stress!

This lesson is mostly a compilation of various prophecies about the second coming and the millenium. Here are the ones specifically referenced in the manual:

The Civil War, starting in South Carolina (some might say still going strong in South Carolina)

Wars poured out upon all nations (two major world wars plus a host of others - the 20th century has often been called a century of warfare)

Famine, plague, earthquakes, thunderbolt & lightning (the first three are standard CNN fare; the last two are part of the Queen song Bohemian Rhapsody)

A seer raised up by God (although Mormons consider this to be Joseph Smith, the Bickertonites, another branch of Mormonism, are still looking for this seer)

The moon will turn to blood (I always wonder whether this means it will be red which is a common scientific phenomenon or whether someone will be murdered on the moon, which might be a good premise for a sci-fi novel)

The Son of Man will descend in the clouds of heaven (not to burst Charles Manson’s bubble, but I don’t think he qualifies based on this description alone)

The wicked will be destroyed off the face of the earth (or does this mean that the play Wicked will finally end its Broadway run? See how enigmatic prophesies can be!)

Judah must return (Jews for Jesus?)

Jerusalem be rebuilt (this would be a lot easier if it weren’t a war zone)

A temple will be built in Jerusalem with water issuing from under the temple (a wellspring or someone left the water running in the bathroom?)

The waters of the Dead Sea will be healed (I assume this means freshwater instead of brackish, but maybe it has something to do with overfishing–see today’s AM post for more discussion on this point)

The sun will turn to darkness (hey, that happens every night!)

Earthquakes in diverse places (pretty common nowadays)

The seas will heave beyond their bounds (sounds like global warming)

There will be “one grand sign” of the Son of Man in heaven that people will mistakenly say is a comet or planet

Contrary to popular belief, all flesh will be subject to suffer from disease and famine, including the righteous (sorry if this isn’t in your plans . . .)

==The Millenium==

After the Second Coming, here are the prophecies regarding the millenium:

* Christ will reign personally (this doesn’t sound like there will be an election since the majority of the planet is still not Christian; or maybe he will just be really persuasive.)
* The earth will be renewed (like a library book?) and receive its paradisaical glory (this is the only place you ever see that word paradisaical)
* The nations will dwell in peace for 1000 years (that would be a nice change)
* The earth will be as a sea of glass, one great [[Urim and Thummim]], and when we look in it we will see as we are seen (So, if the internet is a Urim & Thummim, maybe this is like Facebook?)

The lesson talks about some of the good things about focusing on the [[Second Coming]] and [[Millenium]]:

1. It motivates us to live the commandments and be good people.
2. It provides a sense of urgency to fulfill the three missions of the church.
3. For those enduring trials, there is an end in sight.

But there are also some potential negative side effects of this focus:

1. Developing a complacent attitude that “this world” is temporary anyway and doesn’t matter; hardly an effective way to foster our stewardship of this earth (e.g. why recycle?).
2. An expectation of reward for good deeds (rather than doing things out of a love of God & our fellow human beings). This is kind of like the Santa Claus effect on children–10 months out of the year they behave like troglodytes, but they are perfect angels once Christmas is around the corner.
3. A hyperbolic worldview in which danger lurks at every corner and there is a war for our souls at every turn; fear is not a good basis for Christian charity toward others or rational, balanced decision-making.

What are your thoughts as you think about the Second Coming and the Millenium? Do you make an extra effort to be good when the moon turns red due to a solar eclipse when there are dust particles in the air? Does thinking about the Second Coming motivate you to be a better person or is it too “out there” to contemplate?

==Navigation==
*Next [[RS-Lesson 22]]
*Previous [[RS-Lesson 20]]

==External Links==
*[http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/17/virtual-rsph-21-the-second-coming-the-millenium/ Original Post at Mormon Matters]

[[Category:Joseph Smith]]
[[Category:Church History]]
[[Category:RS/Priesthood Manuals]]

RS-Lesson 21

2009-02-26T23:10:04Z

Mormonheretic: /* Additional Teaching Materials */ fix formatting

RS-Lesson 21

2009-02-26T23:06:45Z

Mormonheretic: add Hawkgrrrl's lesson

''' The Second Coming & The Millenium '''

{{RS-PH top}}

==Additional Teaching Materials==

Sometimes we forget that the early restored church focused a lot on the millenium, which many of them believed was imminent. As if they didn’t have enough stress!

This lesson is mostly a compilation of various prophecies about the second coming and the millenium. Here are the ones specifically referenced in the manual:

* The Civil War, starting in South Carolina (some might say still going strong in South Carolina)
* Wars poured out upon all nations (two major world wars plus a host of others - the 20th century has often been called a century of warfare)
* Famine, plague, earthquakes, thunderbolt & lightning (the first three are standard CNN fare; the last two are part of the Queen song Bohemian Rhapsody)
* A seer raised up by God (although Mormons consider this to be Joseph Smith, the Bickertonites, another branch of Mormonism, are still looking for this seer)
* The moon will turn to blood (I always wonder whether this means it will be red which is a common scientific phenomenon or whether someone will be murdered on the moon, which might be a good premise for a sci-fi novel)
* The Son of Man will descend in the clouds of heaven (not to burst Charles Manson’s bubble, but I don’t think he qualifies based on this description alone)
* The wicked will be destroyed off the face of the earth (or does this mean that the play Wicked will finally end its Broadway run? See how enigmatic prophesies can be!)
* Judah must return (Jews for Jesus?)
* Jerusalem be rebuilt (this would be a lot easier if it weren’t a war zone)
* A temple will be built in Jerusalem with water issuing from under the temple (a wellspring or someone left the water running in the bathroom?)
* The waters of the Dead Sea will be healed (I assume this means freshwater instead of brackish, but maybe it has something to do with overfishing–see today’s AM post for more discussion on this point)
* The sun will turn to darkness (hey, that happens every night!)
* Earthquakes in diverse places (pretty common nowadays)
* The seas will heave beyond their bounds (sounds like global warming)
* There will be “one grand sign” of the Son of Man in heaven that people will mistakenly say is a comet or planet
* Contrary to popular belief, all flesh will be subject to suffer from disease and famine, including the righteous (sorry if this isn’t in your plans . . .)

==The Millenium==

After the Second Coming, here are the prophecies regarding the millenium:

* Christ will reign personally (this doesn’t sound like there will be an election since the majority of the planet is still not Christian; or maybe he will just be really persuasive.)
* The earth will be renewed (like a library book?) and receive its paradisaical glory (this is the only place you ever see that word paradisaical)
* The nations will dwell in peace for 1000 years (that would be a nice change)
* The earth will be as a sea of glass, one great [[Urim and Thummim]], and when we look in it we will see as we are seen (So, if the internet is a Urim & Thummim, maybe this is like Facebook?)

The lesson talks about some of the good things about focusing on the [[Second Coming]] and [[Millenium]]:

1. It motivates us to live the commandments and be good people.
2. It provides a sense of urgency to fulfill the three missions of the church.
3. For those enduring trials, there is an end in sight.

But there are also some potential negative side effects of this focus:

1. Developing a complacent attitude that “this world” is temporary anyway and doesn’t matter; hardly an effective way to foster our stewardship of this earth (e.g. why recycle?).
2. An expectation of reward for good deeds (rather than doing things out of a love of God & our fellow human beings). This is kind of like the Santa Claus effect on children–10 months out of the year they behave like troglodytes, but they are perfect angels once Christmas is around the corner.
3. A hyperbolic worldview in which danger lurks at every corner and there is a war for our souls at every turn; fear is not a good basis for Christian charity toward others or rational, balanced decision-making.

What are your thoughts as you think about the Second Coming and the Millenium? Do you make an extra effort to be good when the moon turns red due to a solar eclipse when there are dust particles in the air? Does thinking about the Second Coming motivate you to be a better person or is it too “out there” to contemplate?

==Navigation==
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==External Links==
*[http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/17/virtual-rsph-21-the-second-coming-the-millenium/ Original Post at Mormon Matters]

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RS-Lesson 20

2009-02-26T22:59:03Z

Mormonheretic: fix title

''' A Heart Full of Love & Faith: The Prophet’s Letters to His Family '''

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RS-Lesson 18

2009-02-26T22:39:41Z

Mormonheretic: add Hawkgrrrl's lesson

''' Beyond the Veil: Life in the Eternities '''

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==Additional Teaching Materials==
This week’s lesson might sound like a repeat from the previous lesson on [[Plan of Salvation]], but it is much more specifically focused on one of my favorite aspects of our theology: the [[3 degrees of glory]][.

The majority of the lesson centers on section 76 of the [Doctrine and Covenants]], which relates a vision received by [[Joseph Smith]] and [[Sidney Rigdon]] in the [[John Johnson]] home in Hiram, OH (where both were tarred & feathered by the mob, injuring Sidney Ridgon’s head in the process, which always made me wonder if he was quite right after that. But I digress.) The photo to the right is the actual room in which they received it. Joseph Smith had been working on his translation of the Bible in 1832 (in the actual room in the picture).

“From sundry revelations which had been received,” the Prophet later said, “it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of man had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled. It appeared self-evident from what truths were left, that if God rewarded every one according to the deeds done in the body, the term ‘Heaven,’ as intended for the Saints’ eternal home, must include more kingdoms than one.” (1832)

Joseph had just read John 5:29:

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

When he and Sidney were pondering what this meant, a vision opened to them in which they saw God the Father, Jesus on his right hand, the three degrees of glory, and Satan separated from the rest with those who follow him. This is an interesting example of an effort to translate resulting in an entirely new revelation, similar to the [[Book of Moses]] and Matthew 24 in the POGP.

===Comments and Questions===

Why do three degrees of glory make more sense than just Heaven & Hell? (In Mormon Speak, how does this scripture restore many plain and precious truths?)

==Eternal Progression==

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. [The righteous who have died] shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with [[Jesus Christ]]. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. (1844)

This manual is just full of [[King Follett]] discourse.

===Comments and Questions===

Is this idea intimidating or does the idea of progress make it easier to handle?

In our eternal progression, why do you think we need to improve “from one small degree to another”? Is this how you learn and grow? Why do some people stop progressing?
Celestial Seating Chart

Here’s the lowdown on who’s who in the [[Celestial Kingdom]] from D&C 76:

* they are they who received the testimony of Jesus, (received meaning accepted or just heard it?)
* and believed on his name (so, must be Christian, at least eventually)
* and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—that by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; (so, correct ordinances are necessary. Because of the rite itself or because of making a commitment and promise that changes your demeanor?)
* and who overcome by faith, (rather than by logic, brute force or personality)
* and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true. (sealed in marriage or through being endowed? does this mean communal salvation - e.g. being sealed to all the Saints?)
* They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. (I always wonder if we’re talking about Jesus or Adam on this one).
* They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things— (given all things in this life or the hereafter? things meaning “truths” or actual things? This seems to contrast with the telestial people below who are getting tripped up by God; maybe this is just a byproduct of being free from the snares of our own bad behavior.)
* they are they who are priests and kings, (but HUMBLE priests & kings, priestesses & queens)
* who have received of his fulness, (what is ‘his fulness’? shrank not to drink the bitter cup? being aware of and accepting the fulness of truths? something else?)
* and of his glory; (so, to receive of his glory, we have to be sanctified enough not to be consumed by it)
* and are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son. (why does Melchizedek always get so much credit? BOM usually just lists the order of the Son of God. Where are the editors?)
* Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God— (does “sons of God” qualify or soften the meaning here, making it clear we are not “equal” with God?)
* wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. (much better version of community property. It’s all about who’s pitching in, after all.)
* These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
* These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all. (This doesn’t refer to men as “judges in Israel,” so maybe those guys are less empowered subordinates with a multi-level hierarchical approval process for damning people; or maybe it’s like an interview process and God & Jesus are the ultimate decision makers).
* These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood. (I love that phrase “just men made perfect.” Not perfect men made judges.)
* These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical. (More on the bodies in a moment).

===Questions and Comments===
In the description of those who will inherit celestial, terrestrial, and telestial glory, the phrase “the testimony of Jesus” is used five times. What are the characteristics of a person who is “valiant in the testimony of Jesus”?

==Terrestrial Kingdom==

There’s a list of those who will receive Terrestrial glory in D&C 76: 81-85, 100-106, 110-112:

* “Behold, these are they who died without law; (so, like those guys in the Blue Lagoon? Does this mean they can’t inherit celestial under any circumstances? That doesn’t sound quite right.)
* and also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it. (So, what if they never heard it in the first place or had really bad missionaries?)
* “These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men. (Unwitting dupes?)
* These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness. (Interesting word choice. So, what is “his fulness”?)
* These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. (Christians who reject theosis? ‘Cause that’s what it sounds like.)
* “Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun. (That makes me wonder - are our resurrected bodies better or worse based on degrees of glory - e.g. no cellulite in Celestial? That’s motivating!)
* These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.” (”not valiant” means what? And “crown over the kingdom” implies we rule rather than being subjects.)

===Questions and Comments===
How can we avoid being “blinded by the craftiness of men”? What can we do to help others avoid being blinded?

==Telestial Kingdom==

Here’s the description of Telestial glory from D&C 76:

* These are they who are liars, (Are they all going to be confused when they start talking to each other and don’t know who is lying and who’s not? Will it be like a cutthroat soap opera?)
* and sorcerers, (Like David Copperfield? What about Houdini?)
* and adulterers, (Wouldn’t it be weird if you’re all saving your DH’s seat in the CK, and he just doesn’t show, and then you find out this way?)
* and whoremongers, (Pimps? Words like “whoremonger” make me think we could use a NIV of LDS scriptures)
* and whosoever loves and makes a lie. (I always wonder if that means “loves a lie” or “lies about love”?)
* These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. (So, God’s tripping them up on earth? Is that because they lost the light of Christ and had to deal with the natural consequences of their bad choices?)
* These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. (Although, as we’ll see below, this is more like “they feel horrid” than Hell = Guantanamo 2).
* These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work. (So, they just suffer until then. There’s an end in sight apparently.)

===Comments and Questions===

Is this a better alternative to traditional notions of “Hell”?

==True Nature of Hell==

“The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers.” (1843)

“A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. I say, so is the torment of man. Some shall rise to the everlasting burnings of God, for God dwells in everlasting burnings, and some shall rise to the damnation of their own filthiness, which is as exquisite a torment as the lake of fire and brimstone.” (1844)

===Comments and Questions===

How can a man be “his own tormentor and his own condemner”? Does this make Hell seem more just?

To the teachers: Please share any other thoughts or tips you have for fellow teachers out there. Most of this lesson is just reading from D&C 76 about the different kingdoms; it might be fun to do a puzzle to get through the material (e.g. a “fill in the blanks” as you read through D&C together or a “sorting” puzzle to put the descriptions in the right kingdoms).

To the rest of you: What are your thoughts about the 3 degrees of Glory and the insights from D&C 76? Personally, this is one of my favorite aspects of our theology because everyone’s a winner (comparatively)! Discuss.
==External Links==
*[http://mormonmatters.org/2008/10/05/virtual-rsph-18-beyond-the-veil-life-in-the-eternities/ Original post on Mormon Matters]

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RS-Lesson 19

2009-02-26T22:23:06Z

Mormonheretic: added Hawkgrrls's lesson

''' Stand Fast through the Storms of Life '''

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==Additional Teaching Materials==
This week’s [http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=da135f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=e8b720596a845110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1&contentLocale=0 lesson] is an interesting compilation of horrifying stories of persecution and suffering from the life of [[Joseph Smith]].

Rather than spend too much time deconstructing this lesson, I will refer the teachers to the write-up done by Douglas Hunter on [http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2008/10/05/lesson-19/ feastuponthewordblog]. I am not going to present this week’s lesson in the usual form, but instead just posit a few questions as food for thought.

The lesson brings up a few interesting points about Joseph’s views on suffering. Specifically, suffering is a means to a religious end:

* God tests us through our trials.
* Suffering puts us on par with “the ancients.”

What the lesson doesn’t talk about is the fact that not all suffering fits these categories, and most of the suffering endured in the examples in the lesson is related to physical torture at the hands of individuals who were persecuting Joseph for religious reasons. What is not addressed, but will likely be inferred by everyone in the class (and is somewhat implied by the picture of an intubated hospital patient visiting with family included in the manual) is that ALL suffering, even just inconvenience or illness, could be a trial of our faith designed to test us and put us on par with the ancients. Nothing in the text really says that, and it seems like a problematic conclusion. What about:

* trials we bring on ourselves through our own stupidity or lack of foresight?
* trials brought upon us through happenstance?
* trials caused by individuals who are exercising their free agency to our detriment?
* trials endured by an individual that have no basis in religion whatsover?

On the upside, the lesson does seem to encourage us to rely on others and on God in our trials. On the downside, there may be a tendency to believe that our trials are always from God, are always a test of our muster, or are always ultimately for our benefit. Obviously, being the victim of sexual abuse doesn’t really fit this stereotype, and there are many other possible examples.

The problem with this view is similar to concepts shared in the Karpman Triangle. The Karpman Triangle explains mental games that people play (perceptions of reality) that are self-fulfilling and actually stall one’s progress as an individual. In the Karpman Triangle, events and interactions are viewed as having a victim, a persecutor, and a rescuer. In the example of the tarring & feathering that took place at the John Johnson home, the story is retold with the Karpman Triangle players all intact: Sidney and Joseph are the victims, the mob is the persecutor, and Joseph’s friends and wife are the rescuers. In this case, the model may be fairly accurate. In many cases it is not, but it gives individuals an excuse for unproductive behavior.

The problem with this model is that it absolves “victims” of responsibility or the need to take action; it villifies “persecutors” in a very black and white manner, and it ennobles “rescuers” to an extent that they don’t necessarily merit. Sometimes, victims are complicit. Sometimes rescuers are self-serving busybodies, and sometimes persecutors are victims of circumstance, misunderstanding, or accident.

So, what do you think? Is the view of suffering as a means to religious ends helpful or harmful or both?

==External Links==
*[http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2008/10/05/lesson-19/ Feast Upon the Word]
*[http://mormonmatters.org/2008/10/19/virtual-rsph-stand-fast-through-the-storms-of-life/ Original Post on Mormon Matters]

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RS-Lesson 19

2009-02-26T22:14:21Z

Mormonheretic: New page: ''' Lesson 19 ''' {{RS-PH top}} {{RS-PH stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== ==Navigation== *Next RS-Lesson 20 *Previous RS-Lesson 18 Category:Joseph Smith [[Category...

''' Lesson 19 '''

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RS-Lesson 20

2009-02-26T22:13:35Z

Mormonheretic: New page: ''' Lesson 20 ''' {{RS-PH top}} {{RS-PH stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== ==Navigation== *Next RS-Lesson 21 *Previous RS-Lesson 19 Category:Joseph Smith [[Category...

''' Lesson 20 '''

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RS-Lesson 21

2009-02-26T22:12:56Z

Mormonheretic: New page: ''' Lesson 21 ''' {{RS-PH top}} {{RS-PH stubs}} ==Additional Teaching Materials== ==Navigation== *Next RS-Lesson 22 *Previous RS-Lesson 20 Category:Joseph Smith [[Category...

''' Lesson 21 '''

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